Tim Lee's comment on KESM. All Comments

Tim Lee
5 Like · Reply
可怜
跌到低过自己的NTA
HONG CHONG
低过NTA很正常的,你看yongtai,ioipg,apm,mkland,parkson...
比较重要的是EPS,DPS,还有公司的钱景
Like · 6 years · translate
Tim Lee
这不正常好吗
你也要和同行比较嘛
我当然知道有低过NTA的啊,但那些是在产业或者工业领域的吧
在科技领域我还是第一次见叻,更何况PE都还没低过10叻
多数的科技股就算PE低过10也很难低过自己NTA吧
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Like · 6 years · translate
kok jason
nTA in 2018 is useless.
Like · 6 years · translate
Tim Lee
你也不能说NTA是useless,NTA 太小的话多数是债务太高或者是国外公司
NTA还有ROE可是息息相关的叻,是投资者判断公司运用资本的能力之一
Like · 6 years · translate
Tim Lee
NTA是包括现金、机器、工厂、地皮、存货
为什么你会觉得以上的东西是useless 呢?马来西亚还是属于出产国啦,还是需要资产来运作的
NTA虽然并不是最重要的,但是我觉得还是要拿来参考看看啦
Like · 6 years · translate
kok jason
how do u know exactly the value of NTA at any point of time? the value given is accounting value not the real value.
Like · 6 years · translate
Tim Lee
兄弟
你其实知道你买股票是买什么的吗?
NTA并不是account算出来的,是valuation出来的
他绝对不可能100%准确,但也肯定不会差很多
其实我相信你应该看不懂annual report,所以你很容易会被表面的东西骗
我觉得你应该多多结交一些做auditor的朋友,问他们关于这些东西
投资股票应该什么数字都必须做参考,每一个数字背后的意义你应该都必须去google一下
我第一次看到有人和我说资产是useless
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Like · 6 years · translate
Tim Lee
我好心一点解释NTA的重要性吧
1 NTA太小可能是债务太多,比方说Digi,所以你才可以看到三位数的ROE
2 只要是国外公司比如Nestle还是Heineken的NTA都比较低,因为他们不会想在马来西亚有很多资产,厂多数是租的,赚到的钱都是拿来派息
3 经常做收购的公司你都必须去注意NTA里的Goodwill会不会太高,因为Goodwill有可能会从NTA删除,变成是一种losses的
4 最重要的是profit and loss statement是可以造假,看起来很像很赚钱比如AirAsia,明明靠自己核心业务赚来的钱才100M左右而已或者为了不要给太高的税务,特地去乱买资产,比方说有些老板会用公司的名字去乱买车就好象BMW来自己用,可是却是公司的名字,然后你就会看到会有很高的depression,你觉得你想投资在这样的管理层上吗?唯有balance sheet还有cash flow statement是很难造假,有借钱就有,没有就没,资产有多少就有多少,钱用在哪里就用在哪里
总结来说,投资不要太表面的去看EPS而已,请把整间公司的里里外外都查一遍
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1 Like · 6 years · translate
Tim Lee
还有就是我觉得你可以不用回复了的,我怕我会让你没台阶下,这样太自取其辱啦
兄弟
再多了解股票是什么比较好
5 Like · 6 years · translate
kok jason
most of the asset on the book can't converted to cash quickly without severe discount like receivable or PPE especially during distress time.That why I said NTA is useless most of the time.

Cashflow is the best indicator of the company management to create value.ROE value is useless though if the company has high debt ratio.

NTA value works 50 years ago, but not now most asset are intangible like brand name, intellectual property except property
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2 Like · 6 years · translate
Desmond Chan (Kum Hoong)
@Tim Please refer to this article https://www.intelligentinvestor.com.au/book-value-nta-nav-and-all-that-jazz-83623

NTA is accounting book value, 账面价值, net book value = costs of assets minus accumulated depreciation. NTA has nothing to do with valuation, as it's not reflecting the current market value of the asset. This is called the prudence concept in accounting, the objective is to avoid the assets from being overstated.
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7 Like · 6 years · translate
Desmond Chan (Kum Hoong)
@Tim Normally as an investor, we usually do not put too much focus on NTA. Why? It's easy, NTA = Total Assets minus Total Liabilities, if you noticed, NTA is actually equals to Shareholders Equity.

So, when you keep this in your mind, NTA (OR shareholders equity) is actually how much money you will get if the company is liquidated. Eg: assume Company XYZ has a NTA RM 1 and MP RM 0.50. If today XYZ is liquidated, you will get paid of those assets worth RM 1 each share, which is a 100% ROI. In other words, NTA tells you how much margin of safety you will get paid from owning those shares (50% safety margin in this case).

All in all, if you realized, NTA can only provide you with an information ONLY IF liquidation happens, otherwise it's useless because you will not get paid from the remaining after all assets are being sold.

Hope this helps, it's just a warm sharing, I have no offence on you.

Desmond 共勉之
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4 Like · 6 years · translate
Tim Lee
其实我几时说过NTA跟valuation有关系叻
我只是说在审核你所要投资的公司的时候应该要看看NTA,看一看自己想要投资的股票里面solid 的东西有多少,会不会太多空气,你投资之后账面价值有多少
你们知道 tulip mania 是怎么产生的吗?是因为人们不注重NTA,只认为未来会很有价值物以稀为贵
巴菲特说过价值是计算出来的,价钱是比较出来的
你必须先算一算你买的每一股现在里面有什么了,才再算一算过往成长如何再以你对公司的信心指数加以估值才是最保险的好吗
不要看到价钱涨得快怕错失良机又看到过往成长惊人就认为可以追涨,却没看一看自己是买一个未来一个希望还是确确实实的买一个生意,我就不相信你在买入一门生意的时候不会去查这家公司里面有什么咯
如果你是以短期投资看图标那当然不同啦
总的来说我买股票比较像买入一门生意,所以我会去看NTA,我不认为NTA是useless
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1 Like · 6 years · translate